I wish we went further left, but the reality is that Biden has been a steady hand at the wheel where we’ve come out of economic unknown of the covid shut downs pretty well. We still have a ways to go, but we’re heading in the right direction, and the most glaring problem (namely inflation) was something baked in before he even came into office.

Abroad we actually have the respect of much of the world, and it feels like to our allies that we are actually a partner that can be trusted on. Keep in mind that if you told a republican of the 80s that a US president rally the west against an imperialistic russia invading Europe, without committing a single US or NATO troop, and exposed them for how weak they are, then they would have said he was the second coming of Reagan.

Do I disagree with a lot of what he has done? Yes. But it’s been a steady ride. Compared to Trump’s presidency, which was a bumpy ride throughout, handing off an economy that looked like it could just go completely into the shitter, and threatening our alliances across the world, he looks like straight up looks like one of the best.

What am I missing? I don’t see in that article where it indicates that the us is blocking it, nor the evidence they have that supports it.

Yes but this continues to be true. The top level poster implied that at some point is was true, but it is no longer true. It’s never been reasonably possibly in the us and nothing has changed recently to make it meaningfully less possible.

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You’re probably going to get a temp ban for Zionism. Lol

This is the beauty of not consuming any MSM: you can believe it has said or not said anything you need it to have in order to confirm your beliefs.

would also take issue with you characterizing what Israel is doing as “fighting back” and “self defense”.

Literally in the next sentence I make it obvious I don’t believe this is the case. And this is upvoted. Amazing how irrational people can be.

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Are you arguing that they weren’t attacked? And you’re laughing at me. Lmao

Who is arguing that Israel fighting back is wrong? Almost everyone recognizes that Israel has the right to self defense, but most people who think that also believes their response is at least disproportionate.

He asked if it was better, they clearly don’t know. Considering you are asking pretty much the same question just worded differently, it’s clear you don’t know either.

You might get up votes if you accompanied a controversial opinion with a reasoned argument.

Ultimately I agree that they should include the argument, but adding a reasoned argument has very little affect on the use of the vote buttons as “agree/disagree.”

If the claim was that they were the same in the support of capitalism, the economic system primarily responsible for making us the juggernaut that we are, then I would have not said anything. But when it comes to social, environmental, and how to use (if at all) that generated wealth to support the less fortunate among us, they differ drastically.

Dems had multiple opportunities in the nearly 50 years Roe was active where they had control of both chambers of congress and the presidency, in which they could have easily enshrined abortion rights into law. Likewise for abolishing the filibuster. Why haven’t they?

Maybe should have. But what are you trying to prove here? They could have also teamed up with Republicans to outlaw abortion, but they didn’t. They’ve done plenty to show their support for pro-choice, especially at the state level. If they were “the same” here, then abortion would easily be illegal everywhere.

You said the entire diagram was “dishonest cherry picking,” yet

No I didn’t. I demonstrated why it was BS cherry picking by pointing out a glaring and important omission.

Why should anyone bother responding to you if you’re going to ignore everything they say and just repeat the same points over and over again after they’ve been rebutted?

You are mad at me for not moving with the goal posts. This went from 'they are both the same and democrats just pay lip service to the environment!" to “well, I don’t think they’ve done enough!” I can agree with the latter, but they are still doing things. They are still showing some effort. They are still moving in the right direction. Republicans are still denying everything.

So all the points in the middle of the diagram just aren’t important? The fact that both parties only serve capital doesn’t matter to you? Both parties rubber stamping endless defense budget increases while healthcare crumbles is insignificant? Both parties providing full, unconditional support and funding to a genocidal apartheid state doesn’t matter because the bloo team did a single bill promising to reduce carbon emissions by a little bit (then completely negated it by opening up more oil drilling)?

LOL. You’re basically just outright admitting how weak your position by the fact that you feel the need to put words in my mouth. The argument is that they are the same. I’ve already made clear I understand that in some ways they are the same. I’ll even add in some ways I strongly disagree with the way they are the same. So the fact that they are the same on some issues doesn’t change the fact that they are not the same. This isn’t difficult position to understand.

and don’t fucking go on about “but the environment” again unless you have something new to say that hasn’t already been rebutted

I said environment, you pretend that it was just climate change. I pointed out that they passed a bill with a large focus on climate change. You just whine it doesn’t count. I cited an article that you just blatantly ignored. lol, my man, you’ve rebutted nothing.

No one here is claiming they don’t have anything in common. Having another thing in common would not change anything. But I’m definitely interested in seeing what happens. Although I suspect if it passes, it will pass with bipartisan support, with people from both sides also voting against it.

Things which Democrats do little to nothing about. Remind me how are abortion rights going, again?

In blue states where they have significant control, perfectly fine. At the federal level where Republicans packed the court so they could take away the rights of individuals, and in Republican controlled states, not so much. Democrats can’t really do much when Republicans block appointments to the SCOTUS because “it’s an election year”, then turn around and contradict themselves and appoint a SCOTUS during an election year. And, again, they can’t do much when they have a slim majority, and things can be blocked by a filibuster or a handful of democrats dissenting from the party.

which you refuse to do aside from going on about climate change

Again, I said the environment, not just Climate change. Go look at environment protections in blue states vs red states.

And, again, this venn diagram you’ve probably been (smugly) pulling out and tapping every time someone challenges on the BS is now outdates, considering democrats just passed a significant climate bill (even if it isn’t enough). No longer can one claim they are doing nothing at the federal level but paying lip service.

So “doing nothing” and “doing a tiny bit of something then immediately negating it with something worse” are totally different things that we need to respect, got it.

This is generally how our government works, we do things incrementally. It’s kind of designed that way, for better or for worse. In this case worse. But yes, moving in the right direction is much better and different than moving in the wrong direction, even if it is only incremental.

“This isn’t a very complex point and you only make yourself look foolish by failing to grasp it.

So, if it isn’t complex, why obfuscate the point that they are only the same on a subset of things and ignore all the important ways they are different? Seems rather dishonest to me.

Because it’s so easily shown to be drastically incomplete.

It’s like we have two polygons. You say “We have good evidence that they are the same shape because they are both polygons!” Well, sure, that’s one tiny piece of the question. But we have to ask how many sides they have, what the angles are between the sides, how long the sides are in length, etc… It’s terrible to claim you have good evidence they are the same because they are both polygons.

Then how about actually addressing the fucking points?

I’ve never said nor suggested that there was nothing they agree on. While I could quibble about most of “they are the same” points in the middle, and strongly disagree with others, it’s really besides the point. There are things on which they are drastically different.

then explain to the class how it’s sophomoric and oversimplified.

I literally did, or debunked it as cherry-picked garbage, and you accused me of being a smuglord for doing so. Am I supposed to address every little point on it? Or can I just demonstrate how it is cherry-picked garbage?

Reducing greenhouse gas emissions to 40% below 2005 levels aka too little too late.

I tend to agree. But all we can do is move forward at this point. But that doesn’t change the fact that with republicans we would do nothing, if not just make policy to make it even worse.

You say that like it’s a high bar.

No, I did not. You just need to be dismissive of it because it negates your worldview.

At least the Republicans are up front about how awful they are and don’t pretend to help by pissing on us as they throw more fuel on the fire.

Ah, so we agree both sides are not the same. Good on you for coming around. Although, in a kind of weird way. But, this kind of further proves a belief of mine that “muh both sides” is just an attempt to excuse bad behavior by Republicans so people can justify still voting for them… . and maybe I can add now “despite openly being against their interests.”

Your wording had it like qualifying as being the same has nothing to do with agreeing on legislation.

Not my intent, but happy to clear it up.

Its still a piece of supporting evidence.

I stand corrected. It’s just terrible evidence that doesn’t even remotely come close to proving the point.

They are trying to demonstrate that Democrats don’t care about the environment, which is why they pointed to new oil drilling and then go on to say “not to mention” about the war. Maybe you are right, and they didn’t mean to link it to the Dems, but it pretty clearly did.