Yes. In big established companies they are managing managers.
In smaller companies, no
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Cake day: June 18th, 2023
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Blocking someone is the Lemmy equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting “la la la I can’t hear you”.
But if this civil discussion has led you to that point then maybe we should let the topic lie and get on with our lives.
You have defined legitimate casinos as only ones that don’t rig games or do scams. A priori you are correct.
There are enough illegitimate online casinos to create a problem for the whole industry.
Online casinos = scam
explain what economic incentive do legitimate casinos (licensed) to rig game
They don’t have enough users so they need to squeeze their regular punters harder.
Even your beloved “legitimate” casinos do “rig” games by offering different odds at different times to different people. They scam people by restricting the amount that can be withdrawn (and other ToS tricks). They create user interfaces to maximise player losses.
we are talking about your “taxonomy”
No. That’s what you are trying to forum slide to.
I’m sticking to the point that online casinos are scammy, including legitimate, regulated operators.
You might not be able to distinguish a legitimate casinos by a fake one,
Not just me. Any average Joe.
but if in your opinion legitimate ones also rig games, this is irrelevant.
Your doggedness for wanting agreement that some casino games may not be rigged is impressive
what users can tell is a completely separate problem.
But a problem very much related to “what’s wrong with online casinos”.
Online casinos rig games.
From the end user point of view, the subset of legitimate casinos (that, following your definition, don’t rig or scam) cannot be easily identified.
I didn’t define shit
Here is your definition (not mine) where you separate “legitimate businesses” from “scam organizations”
I’m saying this line is not clear cut, particularly for the average Internet user. A yes/no answer is not possible.
I was mistakenly taking the top comment of this thread as your comment.
Easily done. Thanks for clarifying.
It’s YOUR definition
Nope. It’s you who is obsessed with separation of “legitimate casinos”.
YOU said, legitimate + fake = online. I asked to which you applied the answer and you said online.
Correct
Now you are saying it doesn’t?
Incorrect.
So, do we agree that legitimate casinos don’t rig games?
You have defined legitimate casinos as ones that don’t rig games.
Also, you mentioned taking a cut to help laundering money,
Incorrect. I said casinos are used to launder money.
now you are retracting saying “are exposed”.
No retraction necessary.
- do legitimate casinos rig games?
Online casinos rig games. You have defined legitimate casinos as ones that don’t rig games. A normal internet user cannot tell the difference.
- do legitimate casinos help laundering money?
Yes. Not necessarily knowingly. Income from internet gambling is tainted.
Your definition of “legitimate casino” excludes any casinos that rig games.
All businesses with financial operations are exposed to money laundering to some degree.
Regulations increase costs to implement. Only “legitimate casinos” fight them.
To which ones does your initial answer apply?
Online casinos.
I bet you wouldn’t be able to show me a fake casino if I asked.
The point is simple “industry” doesn’t contain the scammers who try to abuse it.
It does. To illustrate this I linked to a bank website containing advice on combating phishing.
Here’s the definition I’m happy with.
Legitimate casinos = established businesses in the casino industry
Fake casinos = scammers
Online casinos = legitimate casinos + fake casinos
Combined because users find it hard to tell the difference.
if someone is creating a new standard for banking sites
Not part of the discussion. You are straining pretty hard in your efforts to “win”.
And online casinos don’t include fake online casinos.
Yes, they do. The clue is in the name.
If we are talking about banking sites, and - say - we discuss the security measures needed on them, nobody would think to include phishing sites into the discussion, because it’s meaningless.
Incorrect. Learn to recognize ‘spoofing’ and ‘phishing’
was obviously referring to the businesses which run online casinos
Incorrect
OP was clearly talking about actual gambling businesses.
Incorrect. OP clearly wrote “online casinos”.
You clearly have a guilty conscious about the money you earned from gamblers. Or you are being paid for this shilling.
The problem with online casinos is that they are associated with a huge number of scams.
You instead provided 0 explanation about what you are claiming.
See links above why scamming and online casinos are linked.
They are not banking sites lol
You are not approaching this from a user perspective
If it looks like a banking site, then it is banking site.
If it looks like an online casino then they are an online casino.
The initial question “why are online casinos bad” clearly referred to businesses which…run online casinos
Incorrect.
My argument is that casinos don’t need to scam by rigging games.
And this opinion is incorrect. I would accept that some online casinos don’t need to scam by rigging games.
A scam site is no more a casino than a phishing site is a banking site.
Incorrect. I’ve posted multiple examples of online casino scams, including rigging the games.
Do you think banking sites are scams?
Some are.
Now you are defending the hill that some scammers use casinos as their vector for scams, which is a completely different thing, that nobody questioned also.
Look at the top of this thread. The question was “Why are online casinos bad”.
That’s why scammers usually just pirate and hack small parts of the codebase.
This is complete bullshit.
I linked to an external source showing it is not bullshit.
Your arguments for online casinos not being scams are based solely on excluding scams from your definition of online casinos.
I don’t even dignify with an answer
Rigged games is the only point you want to address, then you fail to do so when given the opportunity.
https://www.legitgamblingsites.com/blog/online-casino-scams-be-aware-of/
Casino Scam Two: Rigged Games This casino gaming scam is fairly simple. They run rigged games which let you win for a while, but ultimately rinse you of every penny. This one doesn’t require 4D chess or deviousness fit for a Bond villain, just good old-fashioned rigged software.
The scam casino software companies which create rigged games are fairly well-known by most people who play regularly online or work in the online betting industry. Respected casinos don’t work with them, and respected casino software companies don’t usually work with casinos that do. That’s an important thing to note, because it is the first step to avoiding rigged games. If you see Microgaming, Playtech, NetEnt, or other powerhouse casino software companies in the mix, it’s highly likely that you’re dealing with a legitimate online casino.
However, scam casino operators have gotten wise to this, and as a result, they run pirated versions of otherwise legit games. They’re much more difficult to spot for the untrained eye, because they are clones of the original games with a tweaked code to cheat you.
Creating a game is much more complex than putting a bunch of images and text on a web page.
That’s why scammers usually just pirate and hack small parts of the codebase.
Also in order to play casino games you need to deposit money, so you need to also develop that part, a scan shop can simply spoof the payment window and steal the card directly…
You don’t get as much money that way. Better to encourage larger deposits and “crash” when large withdrawals are requested.
If you got to know about the casino, chances are it’s a legitimate business.
Not necessarily. Popups and emails exist. Especially interesting if they offer free spins.
This has nothing to do with scamming, or rigging games, which was your initial argument.
The original question was “what is wrong with online casinos”. One answer I gave was scammers, then you pressed me for more.
Note that 7/10 items in that list are simply scams by individuals targeting other individuals and have nothing to do with casinos.
DUDE. This is the point. You can’t argue that online casinos are fine so long as you ignore all the bad casinos and scammers.
Unfair Terms and Conditions […] is absolutely true, usually in bigger or established businesses, but has nothing to do with rigging games.
Fuck me. You admit online casinos are unfair then immediately dismiss this as unimportant. Now I suspect I’m arguing against a paid troll.
Ok, you understand that this is a completely different set of businesses compared to established casino business, right?
From the user perspective they are the same. A scam casino is much easier to create than a scam Nike shop.
licenses are a very effective way to protect yourself from scammers
Not if the licence is fake.
it might be mandatory to limit session duration, show popups every X minutes to inform about losses and duration of the session etc
“Might be mandatory” means that it might not be, and for certain casino operators don’t want it.
your definition of scamming seems to be variable.
Yes. There is the objective “designed to steal” scamming and my subjective dislike of betting against a dressed up random number generator.
bet365 has a casino, do you trust it?
No. But that is my subjective dislike.
maybe you can list a bunch of articles about casinos getting caught with rigged games
Lots of anecdotes along the lines of
https://www.smithfieldtimes.com/2024/01/14/6-common-casino-scams-to-avoid-online/
https://morganfinancialrecovery.com/scams/online-casino-scams/
https://www.legitgamblingsites.com/blog/online-casino-scams-be-aware-of/
“What I mean by this is my friend is a new bettor, we sit side by side watching the same games at the same time, and the odds are much worse for me. It will show -100000 on my screen and shows -8000 on my friends screen”
All betting sites have blacklists of customers taking advantage of arbitrage between sites.
Here are some common online betting scams copied from quora.
Fake Betting Sites: Scammers create fake betting websites that appear legitimate but are designed to steal your personal and financial information. Always ensure you’re using reputable and licensed betting sites.
Phishing: Scammers send fraudulent emails or messages claiming to be from legitimate betting sites, asking for your login details, password, or payment information. Never share sensitive information through email or messages.
Too Good to Be True Offers: Scammers may promise guaranteed wins or insider information for a fee. They might also offer bonuses that seem too good to be true. These offers are often designed to take your money without delivering results.
Tipster Scams: Some scammers pose as expert tipsters or handicappers, offering betting tips or predictions for a fee. They may manipulate their records to show past success, but their actual tips might not yield positive results.
Unregulated Casinos: Betting on unregulated or unlicensed casinos can put your money and personal information at risk. Always choose licensed and regulated casinos and sportsbooks.
Rigged Games: In some cases, illegitimate gambling sites may manipulate game outcomes to ensure players lose. Stick to reputable sites that use random number generators and undergo regular audits.
Payment Scams: Scammers may ask for upfront payment to access their “winning system” or betting tips. Legitimate services do not require upfront payments for access to tips.
Match-Fixing Scams: Some scammers claim to have inside information about match-fixing or rigged games and offer to sell this information. This is often a ploy to steal your money.
Identity Theft: Scammers might impersonate betting sites to collect personal information for identity theft. Always ensure you’re on a secure and legitimate site.
Unfair Terms and Conditions: Some betting sites have complex or unfair terms and conditions that make it difficult to withdraw winnings or bonuses. Always read the terms before betting.
How do you know the site didn’t steal or misuse your information?
Exactly. Scam websites can be casinos or shops or anything.
You are vehemently defending the “legitimate” casino industry whereas I am saying it’s easy to create scam casinos.
Yes, you gave examples based on your own speculations. It’s clear you have no idea how the industry works.
I know well how it works.
Money laundering is something international law covers and is extremely tightly controlled, tax evasion is also completely insane for online businesses, because every transaction has a trail and there are tight regulations about what you need to report for every country where you operate.
Casinos, on and offline, are excellent ways to launder. The amount of regulations trying to mitigate this risk proves my point.
Exploitation of stupidity, sure.
Glad we agree here.
Some also exploit addiction, regulations exist for that too, and for some businesses addicts are terrible customers.
Not for casinos. Gambling addiction is a casino’s main business. Why are there no windows in Vegas?
Question: what exactly is your experience with the gambling business?
Betfair, betfred, bet356, Ladbrokes etc.
Exchanges for sports and real life events I have little problem with.
I only have probems with sites that scam people with flashing lights and random number generators.
Quantity is the name of the game.
Yes. Online you can scam many more people with fake roulette tables.
… for their corporate sponsors, who’s interests slightly align with yours.